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#sugar-meeting, 2018-05-15

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10:57 tony37 Hello
10:57 walterbender hi tony37
10:58 tony37 Hi
11:01 Pro-Panda Hi everyone :-)
11:01 Quozl #startmeeting
11:01 meeting Meeting started Tue May 15 11:01:12 2018 UTC. The chair is Quozl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
11:01 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
11:01 Quozl #topic what we have been working on
11:01 i've been porting record, including coverage and mechanised testing using event synthesis.
11:02 Pro-Panda hasn't been working on anything 'Sugar' for the past week
11:02 walterbender has been getting GSoC students up to speed and fixing a few bugs in Turtle Blocks
11:02 Hrishi <Hrishi!uid200307@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aufemfxgsfejuzed> has joined #sugar-meeting
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11:03 Pro-Panda meeting went away again
11:03 Hrishi Hello
11:03 Quozl #startmeeting
11:03 meeting Meeting started Tue May 15 11:03:23 2018 UTC. The chair is Quozl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
11:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
11:04 Quozl oh well, if meeting continues to be unreliable, we have no maintainer, we might have to stop using it, but for the moment a repeated startmeeting seems to fix it reasonably well.
11:04 tony37 Tony - I have been working on an inventory of the activities available from ASLO
11:04 meeting Pro-Panda: Error: "went" is not a valid command.
11:06 tony37 ?
11:06 Quozl i've nothing further to add.  unless anyone else has anything to say for what they have been working on this week, we can move onto general discussion.
11:07 tony37 ok
11:09 ?
11:09 Quozl right, nobody has any general discussion, we can move on to closing the meeting and get back to coding; all in favour please +1; tony37, walterbender, Hrishi, Pro-Panda.
11:09 Pro-Panda I would like to discuss regarding the Port of Sugar Toolkit to Python 2 and 3
11:10 Quozl ah, right.
11:10 #topic porting sugar toolkit to python 3
11:10 Pro-Panda Telepathy does not have Python 3 support and is used in Sugar Toolkit.
11:10 Currently I am using this as the Python 2 and Python 3 compatible version: https://github.com/Pro-Panda/telepathy3
11:10 The only change in the Python 3 version I made is here: https://github.com/Pro-Panda/t[…]ster/utils.py#L50 where I changed "except IOError, e:" to "except IOError as e:"
11:10 I was wondering on how should we pack it ?
11:11 walterbender also suggested pinging collabora for a more maintained version
11:11 Quozl Pro-Panda: what's the situation downstream with the distributions for telepathy?
11:11 Pro-Panda Quozl: Sorry, I didn't quite get what you asked
11:12 Quozl Pro-Panda: never mind, i see ubuntu 18.04 only has a python2.7 build of telepathy, so it lacks a python3.x build.  i imagine this will happen once debian accepts our python 3 port after sugar release.
11:13 Pro-Panda So, we don't need to worry about telepathy then ?
11:14 Quozl Pro-Panda: from memory, telepathy is a python library for a d-bus mediated messaging interface, and it has backends that we use in sugar; salut and gabble.
11:14 Pro-Panda Quozl: Yes,
11:14 *Yes
11:15 tony37 Salut and gabble are required by collabwrapper?
11:15 Quozl in ubuntu 18.04, the packages that depend on telepathy are sugar, lernid, and tictactoe-ng.  i'm not familiar with the other two packages, but if they have active upstream projects it might be worth talking to them.  seems likely that they may be dead projects, but i haven't checked.
11:16 tony37: yes, kinda.  salut and gabble are effectively protocol backends required by telepathy.  one is for use with a jabber server, the other is for use with only link local addresses.
11:17 tony37 Naturally, this is needed for all collaboration
11:17 Quozl (telepathy calls them connection managers, rather than protocol backends).
11:17 Pro-Panda But if there is no Python 3.x build of Telepathy, then do we need to provide the same ?
11:18 Quozl Pro-Panda: i think you'd best make a build, otherwise nobody would be able to test python 3 port.
11:18 Pro-Panda: but i agree that you could also contact telepathy upstream and talk to them about it.
11:18 Pro-Panda Quozl: Sure
11:19 Quozl: But if upstream has no plans of releasing a Python 3 version, then are we "allowed" to release it, or should we pack it inside the toolkit ?
11:19 walterbender wonders if the Endless team is using Telephany
11:19 Quozl Pro-Panda: there may be another upstream; see for example https://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Git/ ... they aren't collabora.
11:21 Pro-Panda: it's open source, so we could release it or include parts of it within sugar, it's entirely up to us; but if there _is_ an active upstream, it may be better to work with them.
11:21 Pro-Panda Quozl: +1
11:21 Quozl Pro-Panda: i've also thought of ripping out telepathy and using raw tcp or udp sockets, but haven't started that work.  while we can, we ought to try to use telepathy.
11:22 Pro-Panda Quozl: Sure, I will contact upstream first then :-)
11:22 Quozl Pro-Panda: find how many upstreams exist, and contact each, yes.  ;-)
11:22 Pro-Panda Quozl: Sure
11:23 Quozl Pro-Panda: are you done with this topic?
11:23 walterbender will ping tincho to see what Endless does
11:23 Pro-Panda Quozl: Yes, thank you :-)
11:23 Quozl walterbender: thanks.
11:23 walterbender has a topic/announcement
11:24 Quozl walterbender: go ahead.
11:24 walterbender #topic 10 years
11:24 Quozl #topic ten years
11:24 walterbender Sugar is 10 yeas old today.
11:24 Quozl aye.
11:24 Hrishi Yay!
11:24 Pro-Panda That's great news!
11:24 walterbender We have had our ups and downs, but we are hanging in there.
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11:25 satellit congratulations
11:25 walterbender I am pursuing a few leads for some small and large Sugar deployments.
11:25 Stay tuned.
11:25 FWIW, Samson et al. are driving a lot of interest in Sugar on a Stick in Nigeria
11:26 Pro-Panda Nice :-)
11:26 walterbender Although I am not sure we have sufficient technical support for them.
11:26 Quozl actually, i count 11 or 12 years.  i don't know how you count, walterbender.  ;-)
11:27 walterbender Quozl, I misspoke. I meant to say, Sugar Labs
11:27 Quozl heh.
11:27 walterbender 15 May was the day we became official.
11:27 Quozl i see.
11:27 walterbender 2008
11:28 Sugar as a project began in the fall of 2006
11:28 Quozl i was talking with someone in nigeria today, sugar there and in tanzania.
11:28 sorry, rwanda, not nigeria.
11:28 it's late, my error rate is increasing.  ;-)
11:28 walterbender I just got email from a program, Mind Africa Girls Coding.
11:29 They are using Turtle Blocks and Music Blocks, and trying to expand to Sugar on a Stick
11:29 but it is not working on all of their machines
11:29 Quozl the guy in rwanda was looking for a working scratch activity; have we got someone on that?
11:30 Hrishi We have a Sugarizer Scratch port
11:30 walterbender Samson was working with the MIT team to help
11:30 tony37 As far as I know the Scratch activity works on all models of XO
11:31 Quozl tony37: the guy in rwanda has deployed ubuntu 16.04, and the scratch activity on aslo does not work there.
11:31 walterbender tony37, that is a pretty old version
11:31 tony37 Of course, Scratch has made their code internet dependent so we need to use the one that works locally.
11:31 Old is no problem if it works
11:32 Quozl can you tell me who you are talking to in Rwanda?
11:32 Quozl tony37: no, not without first asking them.  reason?
11:33 Pro-Panda: re earlier topic, https://telepathy.freedesktop.[…]iki/Contributing/ points at a mailing list
11:33 tony37 I may be able to get some help from the team there
11:33 Pro-Panda Quozl: Yes, I was just drafting the mail for the same ;-)
11:34 Quozl any other topics?
11:34 Hrishi I want to discuss about how i am doing "Sugar on Windows"
11:35 tony37 I don't know if anyone is interested in the state of the Sugar activities on ASLO
11:35 Hrishi And any problems
11:35 Quozl Pro-Panda: sorry, i'm not available for your meeting in 90 minutes.
11:35 Hrishi: go ahead.
11:35 #topic hrishi, sugar on windows
11:36 Pro-Panda Quozl: No problem, I will keep you updated
11:36 Hrishi I've done my research, Windows Subsystem for Linux supports only x64 devices for now.
11:36 satellit scratch works here: f28 sugar-runner 0.122
11:36 Hrishi For ARM it will be available soon
11:37 First step is I am making a .net application, which enables WSL feature on Windows
11:37 walterbender Hrishi, any restictions on the Windows version?
11:37 Hrishi walterbender: Windows 10 as discussed earlier in mailing list
11:37 walterbender right...
11:38 Quozl Hrishi: i'm curious, why not use GTK+, GStreamer, and Python directly?  these libraries are all available for Windows.
11:38 Hrishi The application is written in C#, and base is available at GitHub/hrishi1999/Sugar-on-windows
11:38 Quozl: I can do that if we want to go that way. Things will be similar
11:38 Quozl Hrishi: and have you tested Sugarizer from the Windows Store?
11:39 Hrishi no I will in a few moments
11:39 have exams going on, have been preparing since a while, exams ending on may 29, I will get plenty time to work in summer
11:40 Quozl Hrishi: finished with your topic?
11:40 Hrishi Quozl: no,
11:41 The next part is to choose a X server to point display to the X server running on Windows
11:41 I've tested it with VcXsrv, it worked fine
11:41 Quozl Hrishi: you wouldn't need an X server if you used GTK+ on Windows.
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11:42 Hrishi Quozl: I need to research a bit more about it, we will go with py/gtk+
11:42 walterbender fwiw gtk on windows even works on xp
11:43 Hrishi Testing it, Sugar starts fast. No bugs noticed in my testing
11:43 walterbender: WSL is not available for XP
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11:44 walterbender Hrishi, yes... I was mentioning it in the context of Quozl 's remark about using those libraries directly
11:44 Hrishi Any doubts? I will start working again after my exams end.
11:44 walterbender: oh ok :)
11:44 Quozl Hrishi: is the Sugar window fully integrated with Windows, or is it embedded in a virtual X server window?
11:45 Hrishi Quozl: X server running on Windows. WSL is integrated with widows, that means you can even access Windows files on Sugae
11:45 Quozl Hrishi: an advantage of full integration is that GTK+ has Windows-specific widgets.
11:45 Hrishi: another advantage would be speed; WSL is not native.
11:46 Hrishi: please test Sugarizer from the Windows Store and tell us if it works well?  If it does, I don't see any reason to port to WSL or even native GTK+ on Windows.
11:47 Hrishi Quozl: isn't WSL native?
11:47 walterbender Quozl, Sugarizer has some limitations, even when it does work
11:47 tony37 Is the Sugarizer library that close to matching the Sugar activities library?
11:47 Hrishi Quozl: ok I will test.
11:48 walterbender: +1
11:48 Quozl Hrishi: WSL is a shim, a layer, an API.  I'm sure it will get better, but it could be years.
11:48 walterbender tony37, it doesn't allow anyone to add new activities
11:48 Hrishi Quozl: also, for developers, Windows based developers can easily setup sugar and test and make activities
11:48 walterbender the selection of activities is made by a closed process
11:49 tony37 Is this a technical problem or a policy issue?
11:49 walterbender tony37, I think it is a matter of priority of the maintainer
11:50 Quozl Hrishi: finished with your topic?
11:50 Hrishi Quozl: yes if no one has anything to ask
11:50 Quozl Anyone else have any further topics?
11:50 walterbender no
11:50 Pro-Panda None from me
11:51 Hrishi No
11:51 Quozl okay, i move to close meeting, all in favour +1.  Hrishi, Pro-Panda, walterbender, satellit, tony37.
11:51 Pro-Panda +1
11:51 Hrishi this meeting time can suit best for Asia
11:51 tony37 It seems clear there is no interest in my project. That is good because I can stop worrying about sharing the resutls
11:51 satellit +1
11:51 Hrishi +1
11:52 walterbender +1
11:52 Quozl tony37: i'm sure if you think there is interest you would have asked to speak about it sooner; i suggest you post to sugar-devel@ instead.
11:52 tony37 bye
11:53 Quozl #endmeeting
11:53 meeting Meeting ended Tue May 15 11:53:48 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
11:53 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-15T11:03:23.html
11:53 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]18-05-15T11:03:23
11:53 Pro-Panda Thanks all :-)
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12:59 Pro-Panda walterbender: ping
13:00 #startmeeting
13:00 meeting Meeting started Tue May 15 13:00:27 2018 UTC. The chair is Pro-Panda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
13:00 Pro-Panda #chair walterbender
13:00 meeting Current chairs: Pro-Panda walterbender
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13:01 Pro-Panda #chair iamutkarshtiwari
13:01 meeting Current chairs: Pro-Panda iamutkarshtiwari walterbender
13:01 Pro-Panda Hi everyone :-)
13:01 walterbender hi
13:01 iamutkarshtiwari Hi
13:01 Pro-Panda #topic past-week
13:02 I was occupied with my exams for the past week. They got over yesterday
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13:02 walterbender :)
13:02 Pro-Panda #topic this-week
13:02 I made a tentative plan for this week: https://gist.github.com/Pro-Pa[…]251ee89e6641da9b3
13:02 #link  https://gist.github.com/Pro-Pa[…]251ee89e6641da9b3
13:03 I am contacting upstream of telepathy to find their plans of a Python 3.x version
13:03 walterbender Pro-Panda, I will write to Tincho right after this meeting re telephany
13:04 Pro-Panda walterbender: Thank you :-)
13:04 walterbender also, I saw the patch to eliminate the jarabe dependency
13:04 so that is all set...
13:04 Pro-Panda walterbender: yes
13:05 walterbender Pro-Panda, is there anything special that needs to be done to start porting generic activities?
13:05 iamutkarshtiwari pro-panda: "improving tests and examples" ~ Could you please elaborate more on this?
13:05 Pro-Panda The only thing that remains is to find a way for the python 3 version of telepathy, and modify build files
13:05 walterbender: No :-)
13:06 walterbender Pro-Panda, is the process of porting documented anywhere?
13:06 Pro-Panda iamutkarshtiwari: I planned to go through the tests and examples and see if they can be improved (which I felt while I was porting them to Python 3)
13:07 walterbender: I write my daily logs (why and what I did) in a personal file. I will filter the ones of Sugar-Toolkit and share them
13:07 (logs pertaining to programming only)
13:08 walterbender Pro-Panda, maybe begin a stub for Sugar Docs on how to port to Python3 ???
13:08 octamois can test drive
13:08 iamutkarshtiwari It'll we be useful for others as well
13:08 walterbender and perhaps debug your docs
13:09 Pro-Panda walterbender: A very naive version exists: https://github.com/sugarlabs/s[…]-porting-guide.md
13:09 I will keep on improving this
13:10 walterbender ok
13:10 Pro-Panda octamois's work might help find potential bugs in the port :-)
13:10 walterbender +1
13:10 iamutkarshtiwari pro-panda: Did you get in touch with Abhijit Patel regarding that jarabe issue?
13:10 Pro-Panda iamutkarshtiwari: I didn't need to, James(Quozl) suggested the fix in the previous meeting
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13:11 Pro-Panda http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]8-05-01#i_2922160
13:11 iamutkarshtiwari great!
13:12 thanks
13:12 Pro-Panda walterbender: iamutkarshtiwari: Kindly suggest improvements and changes in the timeline
13:13 https://gist.github.com/Pro-Pa[…]251ee89e6641da9b3
13:14 iamutkarshtiwari So this plan is just for this week, right?
13:15 Pro-Panda It seemed a bit ambitious to me for a week, so I planned to extend this to a week and a half maybe
13:15 iamutkarshtiwari I see
13:16 Pro-Panda (Rougly 7-8 days)
13:16 iamutkarshtiwari It's better to log down all your work(progress) in your blog weekly
13:17 Pro-Panda Sure
13:17 I will put up the blog post by tonight
13:17 walterbender +1
13:18 Pro-Panda I have nothing more in mind, as of now :-)
13:18 iamutkarshtiwari Just a suggestion
13:18 Pro-Panda Yes, please
13:19 iamutkarshtiwari It's always better to make small PRs so they can be easily and quickly reviewed
13:20 Pro-Panda Quozl suggested against it, since we don't want to have a non-working version of the toolkit or datastore at any point in time, since that hampers the use of git bisect
13:20 iamutkarshtiwari While planning you can break down a issue (with a potentially big PR) into sub tickets
13:20 I see..
13:21 walterbender: What are your thoughts on this?
13:21 walterbender I think as long as there is a comprehensive commit message, then it is OK
13:22 iamutkarshtiwari pro-panda: ^
13:22 Pro-Panda walterbender: I will make sure of that
13:22 iamutkarshtiwari: Sure :-)
13:23 iamutkarshtiwari pro-panda: Can you share the link to your blog here?
13:24 Pro-Panda #link https://pro-panda.tech
13:24 iamutkarshtiwari Thank you
13:25 Pro-Panda Anything else on which we should discuss ?
13:25 walterbender not on my end
13:25 iamutkarshtiwari Nothing from my side
13:26 Let's wrap up then
13:26 Pro-Panda Sure
13:26 #end-meeting
13:26 meeting Meeting ended Tue May 15 13:26:38 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
13:26 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-15T13:00:27.html
13:26 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]18-05-15T13:00:27
13:26 Pro-Panda Thanks all, I will post the summary to @sugar-devel
13:27 iamutkarshtiwari sure
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21:09 pikurasa hi
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22:56 walterbender hi pikurasa
23:06 pikurasa hi walterbender
23:14 Are we about all on the same page for temperament widget? (apologies that I had to end the conversation abruptly)
23:21 walterbender pikurasa, I think so... I don't think we'll really know until we experience it
23:22 pikurasa, the internals are coming together, but the PR Riya submitted is missing some things.
23:22 pikurasa I fetched the changes
23:22 walterbender I'll speak with her about it when she is next on line
23:23 pikurasa After the last conversation, I felt like we were fairly "in tune"...
23:23 walterbender I am a bit confused by some of what she did
23:23 pikurasa Honestly, there was no pun intended
23:23 walterbender: for example?
23:23 walterbender you music people
23:23 Most of the work is in musicutils.js
23:24 pikurasa you were the one that was ending every email with "stay tuned" for a long period of time :p
23:24 walterbender she add the table for three temperaments
23:24 pikurasa looks
23:24 walterbender and she has defined the ratios for the notes
23:24 but I don't understand how she applies these rations
23:25 or exactly all of what she has done with the interval calculations.
23:25 pikurasa What lines?
23:25 I see it
23:25 L255
23:28 I don't know why the equal temperament math is called "ratios"

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