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#sugar-meeting, 2019-08-02

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10:57 walterbender <walterbender!~walter@146.115.133.213> has joined #sugar-meeting
10:57 fakela <fakela!~androirc@41.203.78.137> has joined #sugar-meeting
10:58 fakela Hello
11:01 walterbender hi
11:01 no devin yet...
11:01 meeting <meeting!~sugaroid@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
11:01 fakela I don't think he's here yet
11:01 walterbender Someone else just bumped up against the FF 68 bug and filed an issue :P
11:01 I referred them to your local server solution.
11:02 fakela Did it work for them
11:02 walterbender don't know yet.
11:02 fakela It should actually cause I really stopped opening thru vscode and started opening thru the server
11:02 walterbender I think there are ways to package a local server so it can be launched as an "app" on the desktop
11:03 It works for me in any case
11:03 Maybe you could investigate how to bundle the app and server?
11:04 fakela Will look into this and see if I can get around that
11:04 walterbender Pretty sure I've seen that sort of thing for both Linux and Windows
11:04 It just makes it easier for newbies to get started
11:05 fakela I get your point....will look into it after our meeting and get back to you
11:06 walterbender thank you
11:06 but in works very well as a solution
11:06 and it really the right way to do it.
11:06 fakela Okay
11:07 walterbender so easel and tonejs are eating up CPU?
11:08 how about memory? do we have many leaks? I image we do
11:08 fakela Tween.js too
11:09 Will send a screenshot
11:09 But I can't send any here
11:10 walterbender We could prob. eliminate our use of tween. It is cosmetic.
11:11 fakela Cosmetic as it is not very necessary
11:12 walterbender I think it is only used in turtle. (To show that the music is playing.)
11:12 but we could try something less CPU intensive.
11:12 fakela Okay
11:12 walterbender Try commenting it out to measure the impact.
11:13 fakela Sure
11:13 Lemme do that right now
11:13 Or after the meeting
11:14 walterbender OK.
11:14 Anything else for today?
11:15 seems there is looks to work on... never ending fountain of bugs :)
11:17 fakela Nothing else for now....am going to comment the tween out now and give you feedback and also send screenshots of the profiler and memory tab
11:18 walterbender thx
11:18 ttyl
11:18 fakela Then see how to package the localserver as an app to be launched on the desktop
11:19 walterbender +1
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18:50 MrBIOS <MrBIOS!~aperez@216.52.21.30> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:37 callaurrea <callaurrea!~webchat@rev-18-85-44-69.sugarlabs.org> has joined #sugar-meeting
19:50 MrBIOS waves to y'all
19:50 pikurasa hi everyone!
19:51 Quozl da.
20:00 #startmeeting
20:00 meeting Meeting started Fri Aug  2 20:00:04 2019 UTC. The chair is Quozl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
20:00 Quozl #topic meeting agenda
20:00 #agreed present; Devin, James, Alex.  Anyone else?
20:00 MrBIOS no walter or lionel?
20:01 Quozl callaurrea: are you here?
20:01 no samson either.
20:01 callaurrea Hellp
20:01 Quozl callaurrea: hello.
20:01 callaurrea Hello! Yes, I am
20:01 Quozl #agreed present; James, Devin, Alex, Claudia.
20:02 pikurasa MrBIOS: Have something to report from Kyle M?
20:02 Quozl i've no pending motions, and no reports.  i have no agend to propose.
20:02 llaske <llaske!~llaske@80.214.155.129> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:02 Quozl llaske: welcome.
20:03 llaske hi
20:03 Quozl #agreed present; Lionel, James, Devin, Alex, Claudia.
20:03 topic is agenda for this meeting.
20:03 llaske not sure to be online all the meeting, i am on a boat
20:04 Quozl llaske: okay.  sail or motor?
20:04 MrBIOS pikurasa: I spoke with him earlier in the week, and had an e-mail interaction with him a couple of hours ago, he is sending Karen a draft proposal to address all of the other things her initial proposal didn’t encompass, such as the transfer of remaining funds once we obtain tax-exempt status, and a few other things. She was apparently sick for much of the last couple of weeks
20:04 llaske ferry
20:05 MrBIOS once I have that, I’ll forward it along to everybody here.
20:05 Quozl throws hands in air
20:05 #topic new organisation update
20:05 any questions for alex?
20:06 callaurrea Is there a timeline?
20:06 MrBIOS One thing we need to address is composition of the board of the new entity (finalize roster of the stand-alone Sugar Labs board), which legally exists since June.
20:06 callaurrea: I asked the same question, and am eager to see things move along.
20:08 Quozl anything else?
20:08 llaske has quit IRC
20:08 callaurrea So you are waiting from an answer... it would be good to know. Thanks
20:08 Quozl we have lost lionel on a ferry.
20:09 pikurasa Perhaps we can give ourselves a soft deadline for drafting this?
20:09 MrBIOS the other topic we need to discuss is, if we choose to have formal members for the new Sugar Labs, what the criteria for membership will be, what members will do, and how they will be admitted.
20:09 pikurasa: I think that would be wise, agreed.
20:10 I believe we previously agreed that we wanted to retain the “member” based model, does anyone disagree?
20:10 Also, I reached out to Samson and he will be joining us
20:10 Walter as well, no response there
20:11 callaurrea I remember a conversation about membership fee from many years ago...
20:11 Quozl we have a delegated committee for membership.  we might ask them.  my opinion is that the criteria should be tighter, given the ease with which the membership may influence the board under the new structure.  contributions should be material and regular, not once-off.
20:11 (at the moment, criteria is any contribution, no matter how small).
20:12 MrBIOS I agree, there should be some mechanism for organic membership roll-off. If you haven’t been involved for 10+ years, you probably shouldn’t be considered a member
20:12 Quozl i expect the new organisation will begin with no members apart from its board.
20:12 samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~androirc@45.77.62.215> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:13 pikurasa I motion that we set a deadline that by August 31, 2019, we 1) create a draft template for the board and membership rules of new org, and 2) we all contribute. The draft will not be binding.
20:13 samsongoddy Sorry I am late
20:13 MrBIOS seconded.
20:13 Quozl #agreed present; Lionel (disconnected), James, Samson, Devin, Alex, Claudia.
20:13 callaurrea Who are the members of the membership committee ?
20:13 MrBIOS callaurrea:  https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]ections_Committee
20:14 Quozl members of the membership and elections committee convened 2017 were samson, ignacio, ibiam, hrishi, and percherla.  last report was a few months ago, if i recall correctly.
20:15 MrBIOS it should be noted that at least one of the members doesn’t seem active in the community _at all_ and I have not even seen their name before
20:15 Quozl yes, last report was 6th april.
20:15 samsongoddy percherla is MIA
20:16 Ignacio too
20:16 Quozl you have duly noted it.  we have an open motion, please all speak to it or vote.  the motion is "by August 31, 2019, we 1) create a draft template for the board and membership rules of new org, and 2) we all contribute. The draft will not be binding."
20:16 samsongoddy: update the wiki, please.
20:16 MrBIOS +1
20:16 samsongoddy +1
20:17 Quozl: I will do that.
20:17 callaurrea +1
20:17 Quozl abstain; i can't bind a board i'm not going to be on.  the motion is agreed.
20:18 any other topics for today?
20:18 MrBIOS Quozl: I propose we give everyone who is currently listed on the SL membership roster an opportunity to become a member of the new org by simply clicking a link, though I would like to see the requirement tightened for members who join later on. I think that’s the most fair thing to do. If they can’t be bothered t.
20:18 …to “renew” for free, they probably don’t care enough.
20:19 pikurasa MrBIOS: Perhaps we could draft it on GH?
20:19 nevermind, I misread your comment
20:20 Quozl i'd prefer to require mail reply.  it has more bearing, and tests that they can send mail, a critical dependency for membership.  also, some links are clicked automatically by mail software.
20:20 MrBIOS samsongoddy: thoughts on this?
20:20 samsongoddy I agree
20:20 MrBIOS Quozl: fine with me
20:21 samsongoddy I am currently using VPN just to access IRC in Ethiopia
20:21 callaurrea +1
20:21 samsongoddy So it a bit slow
20:22 Quozl we have a delegated subcommittee, so it would be their responsibility, right?
20:22 in other words, who is going to do this?
20:22 MrBIOS Quozl:  assuming they agree to take on the responsibility, yes. If they don’t/won’t/can’t, then it’s our problem.
20:23 pikurasa MrBIOS: That sounds fair to me. Current members are not expecting to pay, so we can continue them without paying. New members can pay membership fee.
20:23 If someone has financial difficulties, we can set up some mechanism for them.
20:23 MrBIOS pikurasa: right, but the important part is that they confirm that they actually want to continue to be members. Otherwise, it’s just a copy-paste job that’s meaningless, IMHO
20:24 Quozl actually, the new board will have to decide whether to delegate to a subcommittee.  there's reasons to do so or not do so, and i'll leave it to them.
20:24 pikurasa MrBIOS: Yes, I agree to that.
20:24 MrBIOS Quozl: agreed.
20:24 pikurasa BTW, who would like to volunteer to lead our draft due Aug 31st? It would be nice to have point person.
20:24 samsongoddy I agree with MrBIOS on the confirmation
20:25 pikurasa I would agree, but kind of crazy busy (but who here isn't?)
20:25 MrBIOS there appear to be a dozen different pieces of open source software for management of non-profit membership bases, might be worth looking at a few to see if they meet our needs.
20:25 pikurasa First task would be to take what has been discussed here and enter it into an initial draft.
20:25 MrBIOS Admidio is one.
20:25 pikurasa MrBIOS: WordPress has membership plugins
20:26 Quozl i don't think the continuing membership count will be large enough to justify anything more complex than a spreadsheet or text file.
20:26 pikurasa is familiarizing himself with those plugins for something else
20:26 MrBIOS pikurasa: good to know. as far as I know, we don’t currently use WordPress anywhere within the Sugar stack.
20:26 pikurasa Quozl: I think the point is just to keep people active
20:27 MrBIOS: I thought so, but thought I would mention it.
20:27 MrBIOS callaurrea: are you willing/able to serve on the new board?
20:27 callaurrea yes
20:28 who else is staying?
20:28 MrBIOS Walter says he’s trying to get connected, network problems
20:29 I am not going anywhere, I assume Devin and Walter are not. llaske indicated previously he may not want to.
20:29 samsongoddy I don't know how this new development affect me as a board member, I am unfamiliar with the US laws.
20:29 pikurasa I am willing to serve on board.
20:30 *new board
20:30 Quozl samsongoddy: get advice.
20:30 samsongoddy: we can't advise you on this, we have conflict of interest.
20:31 MrBIOS yeah, and also do some of your own research. There is nothing in US law to prevent you from serving on a the board of a US non-profit, that I am aware of, but there may be domestic implications if you choose to do so.
20:31 samsongoddy I will try to look into the domestic implications and get back the the board
20:32 Quozl samsongoddy: it's your cash, house, and future income at stake if you personally breach your fiduciary duty.
20:33 pikurasa Quozl: you make it sound so grim :p
20:34 Quozl it's the most grim wording in the legal advice i've had from a US lawyer.  pro bono.
20:34 walterbender <walterbender!4c138153@c-76-19-129-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:34 Quozl you cover it with directors and offivers liability insurance.
20:34 MrBIOS hey walterbender  :)
20:34 Quozl s/offivers/officers
20:34 walterbender My apologies. Network
20:34 Quozl #agreed present; Walter (second half), Lionel (disconnected), James, Samson, Devin, Alex, Claudia.
20:35 MrBIOS walterbender: check out what you’ve missed at http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]etings/2019-08-02
20:35 Quozl walterbender: would you like to speak about gsoc?  my opinion is that we've lost another student.
20:35 walterbender has quit IRC
20:35 MrBIOS another? How many have we lost?
20:35 pikurasa oh no
20:35 MrBIOS whoops
20:35 pikurasa sailing?
20:36 :p
20:37 Quozl one i'm mentoring has done almost nothing (i.e. from working nights only) for a couple of weeks or more.  that's fine for them, they passed the evaluation, so they are paid up until that date.
20:37 MrBIOS what were they working on?
20:38 Quozl i won't say.  it's not official yet.
20:38 MrBIOS ok
20:39 callaurrea Did we finish the membership topic? who is going to prepare the
20:40 membership rules of engagement?
20:40 MrBIOS samsongoddy: can you sync up with ibiam, since you two are the active members on the membership committee?
20:40 samsongoddy Yes, I will send him a DM.
20:41 Quozl but don't exclude hrishi.
20:41 samsongoddy I will follow up with Ibiam and Hirish
20:41 MrBIOS agreed. Would there be value in a thead on this on the IAEP mailing list?
20:42 Quozl only if you want to slow it down.
20:42 pikurasa MrBIOS: You gave a good outline of TODO for board governance and rules of engagement -- is this something you want/can spearhead? Everyone else must assist, but would be nice to have an "in charge" for the drafting
20:43 MrBIOS sure, I am willing to do that.
20:43 pikurasa MrBIOS: Thank you. Please ping us as often as you need to.
20:44 I can fill out those forms Kyle sent to us
20:44 MrBIOS Will do. I was in the UK on vacation for two weeks, returned this past Sunday, so I was very AFK during those two weeks, in case anyone was wondering.
20:45 pikurasa MrBIOS: Good for you. We all need AFK time
20:45 MrBIOS Walter says he’s unable to get back in, I just got a messsage from him.
20:45 callaurrea ok
20:46 Quozl are we done then?
20:46 MrBIOS does anyone here have anything else they want to address/discuss?
20:47 pikurasa Hold on a sec, I want to update on GSoC travel.
20:47 Quozl #topic travel
20:47 walterbender <walterbender!~walter@2601:191:4181:42ee::ebb5> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:48 pikurasa Rahul requested that SFC pay for his travel as he could not afford it up-front
20:48 However, they purchased the wrong ticket
20:48 MrBIOS wow
20:48 walterbender managed to get back on line
20:48 pikurasa We heard this on Weds
20:48 Has anyone heard back from them? (I have not)
20:49 If not, I will ask again
20:49 Quozl pikurasa: i've not, i expect they have worked with rahul.
20:49 pikurasa: there's no reason for them or rahul to let us know what happened next.
20:49 pikurasa: so dipping our oar in now will stir the waters too much.  ask rahul.
20:49 pikurasa Well, I would like to know if it is resolved, so I will ask. Thank you!
20:50 Quozl if you find they have not worked with rahul in the intervening time, ask them to advise next steps to resolve.
20:51 callaurrea hi walterbender
20:51 pikurasa Ok, that is it for me on travel
20:51 Quozl any other topics?
20:51 MrBIOS walterbender: any other GSoC specific updates?
20:51 or anything else from you?
20:52 Quozl we also have a gsoc student who hasn't blogged once, and some who haven't turned up to the weekly meetings.
20:53 walterbender Quozl, please PM me re the student who is failing.
20:53 ibiam <ibiam!~myirc@197.210.226.254> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:53 walterbender The ones I interact with day-to-day are all doing well.
20:53 lots of PRs landed in Music Blocks
20:54 pikurasa I can attest to the fact there are "lots"
20:54 walterbender off-topic +1 from me for the motion at 20:16
20:55 But there has been a drop in attendance to the Monday meetings.
20:56 MrBIOS has it been communicated to the GSoC students that attendance should not be considered optional, unless negotiated in advance?
20:57 Quozl as i said above, my understanding is that the recent (26th july) second evaluation "pass" gets them paid for their work so far, so they can now evaluate if it is worth working more.
20:58 walterbender MrBIOS, it has been communicated
20:58 pikurasa needs to pick up his son from Day Care
20:59 walterbender and although we no longer have financial leverage, we can still fail them, which will not reflect well on them.
20:59 I'll remind them all again over the weekend.
20:59 MrBIOS got it. Thanks.
21:00 Quozl always a problem with mercenaries; gotta hold the last payment.  ;-)
21:01 callaurrea Thanks everyone for all efforts GSoC
21:01 I have to go back to sleep... I am in HK.
21:01 Quozl walterbender: my opinions sent by mail.
21:01 walterbender Quozl, thx
21:01 MrBIOS callaurrea: thank you for attending. Sleep well.
21:01 callaurrea thank you
21:01 Quozl all those in favour of closing the meeting now?
21:01 samsongoddy +1
21:01 walterbender +1
21:01 pikurasa +1
21:01 callaurrea +1
21:01 pikurasa Thank you!
21:02 pikurasa has quit IRC
21:02 Quozl #endmeeting
21:02 meeting Meeting ended Fri Aug  2 21:02:09 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
21:02 walterbender thanks and apologies for being late
21:02 meeting Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-02T20:00:04.html
21:02 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]19-08-02T20:00:04
21:02 callaurrea walterbender: take care!
21:03 MrBIOS walterbender: random question, do you recall Luke Faraone?
21:03 samsongoddy I do
21:03 MrBIOS he was involved with the Membership & Elections committee a while back
21:09 ibiam has quit IRC
21:09 samsongoddy Yes, he was.
21:09 walterbender MrBIOS, yes. Luke is quite capable.
21:10 DC based as I recall, but that was a few years back.
21:10 MrBIOS walterbender: he’s in the Bay Area now, works for Dropbox.
21:10 He seems it. I just reached out to him via Twitter DM and let him know we’re rebooting. It would be good to pick his brain.
21:10 walterbender Another distinguished alumnus of Sugar Labs :)
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