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#sugar-meeting, 2019-10-02

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19:56 Quozl_ meeting: ping
19:56 meeting pong
19:57 samsongoddy hello
19:59 pikurasa hi
20:00 Quozl_ #startmeeting
20:00 meeting Meeting started Wed Oct  2 20:00:06 2019 UTC. The chair is Quozl_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #endmeeting
20:00 Quozl_ #topic appoint chief executive
20:00 llaske hi
20:01 Quozl_ #agreed quorum of lionel, devin, samson, and james.
20:02 pikurasa As for Chief Executive (or Executive Director), Kyle asks us to chose one very soon.
20:02 I think it should be a democratic process, so I am bringing it here to discuss.
20:03 Does anyone have a candidate in mind?
20:03 Quozl_ yes, i propose alex.
20:03 pikurasa Any other candidates?
20:04 Quozl_ i have no other candidates to propose.
20:04 pikurasa I am assuming that means, no from everyone else?
20:04 samsongoddy alex, walter for me
20:04 Quozl_ i don't think that can be assumed.
20:05 pikurasa samsongoddy: does that mean both alex and walter?
20:05 I have no candidates that have not been mentioned already
20:05 walterbender hi.. sorry I had my head in some code
20:06 samsongoddy those are the candidates for me
20:06 walterbender I would love Alex to accept the role
20:06 Quozl_ #agreed quorum of lionel, devin, samson, james, and walter.
20:06 pikurasa walterbender: have you pinged claudia yet? If not, please do so.
20:07 walterbender I will ping her
20:07 Quozl_ llaske: do you have any candidates to propose?  for chief executive role.
20:07 llaske nope
20:08 pikurasa I am calling Alex to join meeting
20:08 walterbender Better we appoint before he can say no :)
20:08 pikurasa haha
20:08 Quozl_ i guess he should consent.
20:08 MrBIOS <MrBIOS!~aperez@216.52.21.30> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:09 pikurasa hi MrBIOS
20:09 MrBIOS saw you rang
20:09 apologies for my tardiness, folks.
20:09 pikurasa we have two candidates for Exec Director for SLI:
20:09 Alex P and Walter B
20:09 walterbender Oh. I thought it was only Alex P.
20:10 pikurasa MrBIOS: Do you have any addit. candidates?
20:10 samsongoddy: added your name, walter
20:11 MrBIOS heh @ walterbender. I would honestly be honored to be Exec Director of SLI. I know walterbender had previously stated to me, not sure in what context, that he was not interested in that particular responsibility.
20:11 walterbender I'm very happy being on the board but I am too distracted to take on the role of ED
20:11 I think Alex would be great in that role.
20:13 pikurasa I motion that Alex Perez be given the position of Executive Director for Sugar Labs Inc. and all the responsibilities that the role entails.
20:13 walterbender seconded
20:13 llaske +1
20:13 Quozl_ +1
20:13 walterbender +1
20:13 samsongoddy has quit IRC
20:14 MrBIOS yay, even more responsibility!  I will do my best to not let you down.
20:14 the process of dissociating ourselves from SFC has been arduous
20:14 (and still is)
20:14 Quozl_ although samsongoddy has left, he did indicate a preference for both alex and walter, so i'll take his vote as +1.
20:14 samsongoddy <samsongoddy!~samsongod@154.66.54.75> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:14 walterbender No surprise there :P
20:14 MrBIOS he’s back
20:14 pikurasa samsongoddy: please vote on the previous motion
20:14 Quozl_ #agreed motion Alex Perex to be Executive Director for Sugar Labs Inc. with all the responsibilities that the role entails.
20:15 samsongoddy +1
20:15 MrBIOS and now the other position(s)?
20:15 pikurasa There is also the possibility for CFO and secretary
20:15 Claudia <Claudia!~webchat@18.27.196.14> has joined #sugar-meeting
20:15 pikurasa Hi Claudia
20:15 Claudia Hello everyone
20:15 MrBIOS welcome, Claudia
20:15 walterbender pikurasa, would you be CFO?
20:16 pikurasa I would, if that would be helpful.
20:16 MrBIOS moves that Devin Ulibarri be given the position of Chief Financial Officer for Sugar Labs Inc. and all the responsibilities that the role entails.
20:17 walterbender seconds
20:17 Quozl_ +1
20:17 Claudia +1
20:17 walterbender +1
20:17 samsongoddy +1
20:17 llaske +1
20:18 Quozl_ #agreed MOTION 2019-25
20:18    Devi Ulibarri to be Chief Financial Officer for Sugar Labs Inc. with all the responsibilities that the role entails.
20:18 oops, will fix.
20:18 walterbender and secretary?
20:19 MrBIOS nominates Walter
20:19 Quozl_ #agreed MOTION 2019-25 Devin Ulibarri to be Chief Financial Officer for Sugar Labs Inc. with all the responsibilities that the role entails.
20:19 pikurasa (reminder: All these positions do not necessarily need to be from this pool of people)
20:19 walterbender I'm OK with writing up meeting notes...
20:19 (reminder: we can make changes later)
20:20 Claudia ok, pikurasa
20:20 Quozl_ i think alex should be secretary, because of the communication bandwidth that must occur once the secretary is someone other than the chief executive.
20:21 walterbender if that works for Kyle +1
20:21 MrBIOS okay, I am not opposed to it in theory, but I can honestly say I don’t think I’ll be the best secretary, and would propose it be changed in the future, if someone is willing.
20:21 Quozl_ "one person can hold all of those titles" is the answer we already have.
20:21 MrBIOS: you can delegate minute taking to walter.
20:22 walterbender +1
20:22 MrBIOS +1
20:22 Quozl_ motion please?
20:23 pikurasa moves that Walter Bender be given the position of Secretary for Sugar Labs Inc. and all the responsibilities that the role entails.
20:23 Quozl_ +1
20:23 llaske +1
20:23 samsongoddy +1
20:23 Claudia +1
20:23 walterbender sits this vote out
20:23 Claudia It would be good to even think about the governance structure we need
20:24 Quozl_ #agreed MOTION 2019-26: Alex Perex to be Secretary for Sugar Labs Inc. with all the responsibilities that the role entails.
20:25 walterbender Quozl_, please reread pikurasa 's motion
20:25 I was surprised by it.
20:25 MrBIOS yes, need to correct that :P
20:25 walterbender but am OK either way
20:25 Quozl_ heh.  i got that wrong, sorry.
20:25 MrBIOS #unagreed?
20:25 Quozl_ #agreed MOTION 2019-26: Walter Bender to be Secretary for Sugar Labs Inc. with all the responsibilities that the role entails.
20:26 walterbender :)
20:26 Claudia thanks
20:26 pikurasa Claudia is right. We assigned ourselves to come up with a governance structure by the end of August.
20:26 Quozl_ i doubt any of us have time for that.  can we just borrow someone elses?
20:27 walterbender +1
20:27 our previous one was not so bad...
20:27 pikurasa of course we were not going to do it from scratch.
20:27 walterbender just the part about the SFC was broken
20:27 pikurasa I thought we were going to start from our previous structure and make a few modifications.
20:28 MrBIOS: I believe you were assigned. Did you make any progress, by any chance?
20:28 Claudia not from scratch, but an opportunity to think about changes
20:29 MrBIOS I’ve not been able to find much “existing structure” although I’ve looked. I have looked over the wiki extensively, and now need to look over the _laptop.org_ wiki to find and extract things specific to Sugar.
20:29 pikurasa https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/[…]r_Labs/Governance
20:30 MrBIOS yes, I’ve read it, and it’s definitely our base
20:30 one thing I’d like us to consider re-evaluating is the number of board members
20:31 does anyone have any opinions on the “seven oversight board member” dictate?
20:31 Quozl_ motion; reduce the number of board members to five for the next election
20:31 MrBIOS there is obviously benefit in it being an odd number. Seconded.
20:31 walterbender +1
20:31 samsongoddy +1
20:32 pikurasa +1
20:32 Quozl_ darn wiki always expires my session before the end of the meeting.
20:32 Claudia Hmmm
20:32 I am not sure I agree...
20:33 MrBIOS I would like to revive the goal of having an advisory board, and would like to solicit suggestions of potential members of said board. Have we ever had a functional advisory board?
20:33 walterbender +1
20:33 I can think of lots of great people
20:34 MrBIOS walterbender: we should put together a list of potential candidates, would a wiki page be an appropriate place for that?
20:34 I have at least one or two people in mind
20:34 Claudia how many people?
20:34 walterbender Sure.
20:34 I think it can be a large group.
20:34 MrBIOS Claudia: great question, I agree it should be larger than the board. Maybe 10-15?
20:35 it may make sense for there to be no hard cap on the number of members, but have a written criteria for how new advisory board members get appointed?
20:36 Claudia if we have an advisory board, I am ok with reducing the number of board members to five
20:37 walterbender yes...
20:37 pikurasa I think having an advisory board is a good decision.
20:37 Claudia +1
20:38 pikurasa Claudia: is your main concern with a smaller board due to diversity?
20:38 walterbender Cynthia, Brian Smith, Brian Silverman, Baktiar, Harriett, Kehinde, ... I can go on
20:40 samsongoddy Kehinde?
20:40 Claudia pikurasa: not my first thought, but yes...
20:40 MrBIOS also, as a sidenote, I would like to make an effort to have more gender diversity on both the board and a future advisory board, especially given the ratio of women to men in education.
20:40 Claudia I am afraid we would not have quorum and the support to advance what we need
20:40 walterbender Someone I met who has a great background whom you should meet
20:40 pikurasa Anything to discuss on this topic? Is this something we need to vote on. If so, please motion.
20:41 MrBIOS of course, that means convincing or recruiting suitable folks, which all of you can help with, potentially.
20:41 samsongoddy oh great
20:41 pikurasa (sorry, I typed that at a time when there was not as much activity.. then pressed enter after all the activity began again)
20:41 samsongoddy I have one topic
20:42 pikurasa samsongoddy: what is the topic?
20:42 samsongoddy #opensourcefestival
20:42 I sent a mail to the board some days back about it
20:43 Quozl_ i couldn't see how it related to sugar labs.  i thought it was a mistake.
20:43 pikurasa https://festival.oscafrica.org/
20:43 Claudia + 1 to a gender diversity both at board and advisory group
20:44 MrBIOS to quote from your e-mail, “The Open Source Community Africa is launching the first-ever Open Source Summit / Festival. It is the most significant open-source gathering on the continent, and the first conference is going to be in Lagos, Nigeria, the February 20th-22nd of February 2020.”
20:44 walterbender samsongoddy, I wrote back and had some questions... do you have answers?
20:44 MrBIOS walterbender: I do not recall seeing that e-mail
20:44 samsongoddy I didn't see any email
20:44 from you walterbender
20:45 pikurasa "sponsoring the conference" -- what do you mean by "sponsor"
20:45 like fiscal sponsor?
20:45 walterbender looks in his outbox
20:45 MrBIOS Quozl_: any presence we were to have there would probably be in an “awareness building” capacity.
20:45 pikurasa or just have a booth?
20:45 samsongoddy not fiscal sponsor, conference sponsorship
20:46 MrBIOS samsongoddy: any rough idea what that would cost, dollar-wise?
20:46 pikurasa I guess that is what I meant... :p
20:46 walterbender my mistake. it was in GH, not email, that I asked you... you said you'd get back to me.
20:46 samsongoddy Yes, I know that question would come up, I sent a prospectus.
20:47 MrBIOS in general, I am supportive of efforts to build awareness that we are not a ‘dead’ open source project, and recruit new users/members/testers.
20:47 but it can’t break the bank (account)
20:47 walterbender But I need the details that I asked for...
20:47 samsongoddy Yes, walterbender. I recall we had that conversation that is why I sent a mail to the board including a sponsorship prospectus
20:48 walterbender "Meanwhile,  you should write a brief statement on how the sponsorship will benefit the community and what amount you are asking for and how the $ will be used."
20:49 pikurasa samsongoddy: by "conflict of interest" do you mean you think you would benefit financially, or do you mean that you are involved in the conference and the support would benefit the conference itself?
20:49 Claudia if the sponsorship gives SLB some visibility and the kinds of gain described by MrBIOS, we can consider... if the amount is reasonable
20:49 MrBIOS Walter, in the link to the PDF provided by samsongoddy, there are four sponsorship levels, Silver, Gold, Diamond, and Headline. Given that Silver is $5,000, I believe that’s the only sponsorship option that’s practical to consider at the present time.
20:49 Quozl_ samsongoddy: how many of the ten sponsorship slots have been taken already?
20:49 MrBIOS Silver includes exhibition space.
20:50 samsongoddy Quozl_, none.
20:50 Claudia but it cost also to take advantage of those opportunities... who will be there? do we need to have a booth? materials? etc
20:50 pikurasa I see, $5000-20,000
20:50 MrBIOS and our “Logo on Holding Slides shown between talks"
20:50 - Company name and logo in attendee e-mails
20:50 Quozl_ no rush then, and the event is in february.
20:50 MrBIOS - Opportunity to speak at the festival
20:51 pikurasa My knee jerk reaction is that I do not think we are in a position to do that because we do not know when we will have financial freedom. Also, any big financial decision needs to be made within a larger strategic plan.
20:51 MrBIOS - Three free festival registrations
20:51 pikurasa: I agree, that’s my knee-jerk as well, although I would personally like to see if it’s possible to make happen.
20:51 pikurasa Like, first we need to come up with a strategic plan for SLI, then we need to decide what things help support our plan.
20:51 MrBIOS To me, Gold/Diamond/Headline level sponsorship is a non-starter.
20:52 pikurasa Otherwise, we risk burning up, which no one wants us to do.
20:52 Quozl_ i've a more fundamental objection; i don't think it will generate any response for us as a project.
20:52 walterbender before the time runs out, I have two other topics...
20:52 pikurasa samsongoddy: but I thank you for bringing it up. Please continue ot do so
20:52 walterbender: what is up?
20:52 MrBIOS Quozl_:  that is a possibility, however it’s not possible to prove/disprove.
20:53 Claudia agree, MrBIOS
20:53 samsongoddy I will send a follow up based on walterbender requests about benefits
20:53 walterbender it could relate to GCI/GSoC for next year...
20:53 pikurasa It is not a bad idea, but we need to have a larger plan
20:53 Quozl_ like i'd say gsoc 2019 has given us no response; no new developers, testers, or users.
20:54 walterbender Quozl_, we've had post GSoC contributions from at least one student.
20:54 and I expect she'll keep contributing.
20:54 MrBIOS more fundamentally, I think we need to focus inward in the short term, and have a strategy/strategic plan, before consciously choosing to focus outward
20:54 Quozl_ walterbender: in music blocks?  that's great, i didn't hear about that.
20:55 samsongoddy she: Favour Kelvin?
20:55 walterbender yes, and yes
20:55 samsongoddy yes, she works with me. So I agree
20:55 walterbender and several GSoC students have offered to help mentor in GCI, if we do it, which brings me to one of my two topics.
20:56 Do we want to do it this year?
20:56 MrBIOS when is it, exactly?
20:56 pikurasa yes from me
20:56 walterbender Quozl_, raised some legitimate concerns about mentoring
20:56 it begins after thanksgiving
20:57 runs to mid January
20:57 Quozl_ i'd have to look up when thanksgiving is.
20:57 walterbender sorry... late november
20:57 or early december.
20:57 Quozl_ ah, okay, a few weeks after melbourne cup day.
20:58 walterbender exactly :)
20:58 MrBIOS personally, I think it might be wise to consider not participating in GCI this iteration
20:59 Quozl_ what realyl gets me is the sense of entitlement these students are turning up with.  we don't have the resources to be a university tutor to them.
20:59 walterbender I think we can find enough mentors and I know there are plenty of Music Blocks projects... I worry about sugar core projects/mentors
20:59 MrBIOS going back to the “we need to focus inward” theme
20:59 llaske +1 walterbender
20:59 same for Sugarizer
20:59 Quozl_ and they don't seem to think "whats in it for them?"
20:59 MrBIOS perhaps on a smaller scale? How many students have we historically had in GCI?
21:00 +participating in
21:00 walterbender gci is not gsoc
21:00 MrBIOS I am aware of the difference
21:00 walterbender it is a very different type of mentoring
21:00 Quozl_ gci is not a mentoring load, although they do tend to ask stupid questions as a matter of course.
21:00 MrBIOS sure, that’s to be expected.
21:00 walterbender I am not sure what Quozl_ is referring to in the context of gci
21:00 I do see it in some students in gsoc
21:01 I don't see how you learn w/o stupid questions
21:01 MrBIOS tends to agree.
21:01 walterbender and IMHO, we've gotten more value out of GCI than any other initiative we have done.
21:02 samsongoddy I think we should do GCI, yes the kids sometimes can get crazy sometimes, but we should.
21:02 walterbender and it more than any other program is aligned with our mission
21:02 Quozl_ i think alignment with mission is secondary.  we must first surivive.
21:03 pikurasa so let's do it. Please motion. I got to go soon.
21:03 walterbender I don't see how this gets in the way of survival
21:03 Claudia I am in support of GCI
21:03 llaske We had very amazing students in GCI on Sugarizer tasks. Some activities (Abacus, Reflection, ...) was written by GCI students
21:03 Quozl_ anything gets in the way of survival when survival is at risk.
21:03 walterbender it is one of the few opportunities we have for bringing in new people
21:03 Claudia and I wouldn't call the student's questions stupid
21:03 pikurasa Quozl_: As a NPO our alignment with mission is our survival in many ways
21:03 walterbender and generally we get a few great ones...
21:04 pikurasa I agree with Claudia: I would be embarrassed if a student read this thread and associated Quozl_'s comments with my own
21:05 needs to pick up his two year old son
21:05 walterbender motion: Sugar Labs to apply to participate in Google Code In 2019-2020
21:05 llaske I'm afraid no one will read this thread :-)
21:05 Seconded
21:05 pikurasa second
21:05 +1
21:05 llaske +1
21:05 Claudia +1
21:05 walterbender +1
21:05 samsongoddy +1
21:05 Quozl_ -1
21:05 pikurasa llaske: you would be surprised
21:05 Quozl_ motion agreed.
21:05 pikurasa Thanks
21:06 walterbender I will prepare the application
21:06 one last topic from me
21:06 llaske Could help if you want
21:06 walterbender #topic release
21:06 Quozl_ #agreed motion 2019-27; apply to participate in Google Code In 2019-2020.
21:07 MrBIOS Quozl_:  would you be willing to consider sitting on the advisory board? I think it would be a good thing to have at least one former-SLOB there.
21:07 walterbender I think the board should offically ACK and celebrate Sugar Live Build 20191002 with Sugar 0.116 and Python 3
21:07 Quozl_ MrBIOS: this is as a substitute for mailing list engagement?
21:07 MrBIOS seconded. ACK and great work.
21:07 walterbender almost singularly an effort by Quozl_
21:07 well done sir.
21:08 pikurasa +1
21:08 Quozl_ yes, we have no other active developers on sugar since gsoc.
21:08 walterbender we need to fix that
21:08 pikurasa bye
21:08 pikurasa has quit IRC
21:08 MrBIOS we should try to make it something that can continue to be built in an automated fashion, and kept alive/active by folks other than Quozl_
21:08 Quozl_ MrBIOS: soas.
21:09 Claudia I have to go, I am sorry
21:09 Quozl_ Claudia: bye.
21:09 walterbender MrBIOS, let's try to find some time between now and the next board meeting to do some brainstorming
21:09 MrBIOS Claudia: that’s fine, thank you for coming.
21:09 walterbender thanks everyone
21:09 MrBIOS walterbender: we should do it via Skype or something.
21:09 Claudia thanks!
21:09 be everyone
21:09 Claudia has quit IRC
21:10 MrBIOS Quozl_: as a substitute for which ML engagement? I personally don’t think they’re mutually exclusive
21:10 but if you’d prefer to not be engaging on the ML, that’s fine.
21:10 Quozl_ MrBIOS: i'm saying i don't see a functional difference between an advisory board and participation in our mailing lists.
21:11 MrBIOS: if we haven't been able to sustain participation in our mailing lists, i don't see how asking people to do it as an advisory board is likely to achieve anything.
21:12 MrBIOS Quozl_: oh, well, in the context of an advisory board, we would be recruiting people who are active in “edu-tech” but not necessarily even aware of what Sugar is. Therefore, having someone who is aware of it, and of the institutional history of it, and of OLPC, would be useful
21:13 walterbender and having period meetings to get their advice and input
21:13 MrBIOS right.
21:14 Quozl_ MrBIOS: it seems crazy; for me on sugar it would be switching from maintenance and release to talk-talk by people who won't be doing anything.
21:14 MrBIOS then I guess we have our answer. I would rather not lose you in the former capacity.
21:16 walterbender Another thing I meant to bring up in the meeting today: https://www.gnome.org/news/201[…]cation-challenge/
21:16 I was thinking about a Python version of Music Blocks.
21:17 do you think it would be of interest? useful to Sugar Labs?
21:17 MrBIOS I don’t know enough about it to make a judgement yet, but in theory, potentially. Is it all JS now?
21:18 walterbender yes...
21:18 llaske Music Blocks to learn Python ?
21:18 walterbender modeled after the Python Turtle Blocks code.
21:18 but many improvements I have been meaning to backport.
21:19 I thought it would be a nice vehicle for outreach to GNOME
21:19 and Endless is already using some Sugar activities, including Turtle Blocks.
21:20 I don't see any downside in applying.
21:20 MrBIOS got it. In that case, yes, i think it makes sense. I would also like to have a discussion about how we might go about having some coherence between Sugarizer and Sugar, when it comes to our vision, as well as potential practical such as some form of basic collaboration integration, etc.
21:21 walterbender we need to get the Sugarizer apps to be compatible with the Sugar JS support... they drifted apart at some point.
21:21 MrBIOS that’s something that we could issue a bounty for
21:21 walterbender and I had not made much effort with Music Blocks since the synth I was using was incompatible with the old Browse
21:22 It should work in the new Browse though
21:22 still, I think there is merit in a Python version.
21:22 samsongoddy +1 MrBIOS, I have a structure we should follow for bounty
21:22 walterbender much prefers writing Python code
21:22 samsongoddy I have worked with opencollective around bounty program
21:22 llaske You're right there is some incompatibility issues on Sugar-Web layer. Some should be handle
21:23 walterbender Sugar-Web needs some love
21:23 llaske, maybe we can design a series of GCI tasks to address this?
21:23 would be great
21:23 MrBIOS walterbender: s/we/you/g :)
21:23 llaske Sounds too complex for GCI
21:24 MrBIOS that’s my concern as well, llaske
21:24 walterbender don't underestimate these kids
21:24 the good ones can program circles around me.
21:24 samsongoddy MrBIOS, some bounty frameworks to follow https://docs.opencollective.co[…]velopers/bounties
21:26 walterbender needs to run off to another meeting. TTYL
21:28 llaske I have to go too
21:34 walterbender has quit IRC
21:35 Quozl_ #endmeeting
21:35 meeting Meeting ended Wed Oct  2 21:35:15 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. (v 0.1.4)
21:35 Minutes: http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]-02T20:00:06.html
21:35 Log:     http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/s[…]19-10-02T20:00:06
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